WoW Forever Rogue Talent and Spell Changes

For Rogues, the biggest change in WoW Forever is that Sap no longer breaks Stealth. You can take one enemy out of a pull and still open on another, and Distract now also makes enemies worse at spotting you.

Energy also refills smoothly instead of in a burst every two seconds. Rogues can learn to use one-handed axes, and poisons have more charges and work alongside sharpening stones.

Assassination gets Mutilate, a strike with a dagger in each hand, and ends in Venom, a finisher that strengthens your poisons. Combat folds its weapon talents into Hack and Slash and now works for a Backstab build too. Subtlety is built around Rupture, with Hemorrhage making it hit harder and Thousand Cuts making your next strikes cheaper.

Try a build as you read in the Rogue talent calculatorRogue talentsAssassination, Combat, Subtlety.

Spells

  • Sap

    No longer breaks your Stealth.
    ClassicRank 3

    Incapacitates the target for up to 45 sec. Must be stealthed. Only works on Humanoids that are not in combat. Any damage caused will revive the target. Only 1 target may be sapped at a time.

    ForeverRank 3

    Incapacitates the target for up to 45 sec. Only works on Humanoids that are not in combat. Any damage taken will break the effect. Only 1 target may be sapped at a time. Does not break Stealth.

  • Expose Armor

    Now matches five Sunder Armors, and Warriors can still use Sunder Armor on the target.
    ClassicRank 5

    Finishing move that exposes the target for 30 sec, reducing armor per combo point: 1 point : 340 armor 2 points: 680 armor 3 points: 1020 armor 4 points: 1360 armor 5 points: 1700 armor

    ForeverRank 5

    Finishing move that exposes the target for 30 sec, reducing Armor per combo point: 1 point : 450 Armor 2 points: 900 Armor 3 points: 1350 Armor 4 points: 1800 Armor 5 points: 2250 Armor A miss does not consume your Combo Points.

Other changes

  • Distract
    Also makes enemies worse at spotting you, though enemy players see the debuff.
  • Feint
    Lowers your threat twice as much.

Assassination talents

Classic
Forever
  • Mutilate

    A new strike with a dagger in each hand, in row 5.
    ForeverRank 1/1

    Instantly attacks with both weapons for 75% weapon damage plus an additional 17 with each weapon. Damage increased by 20% against Poisoned targets. Awards 2 Combo Points.

  • Venom

    A new finisher at the bottom of the tree that strengthens your poisons.
    ForeverRank 1/1

    Finishing move that increases the damage of your Poisons by 30% and your chance to apply Poisons by 10%. Lasts longer per combo point: 1 point : 9 seconds 2 points: 12 seconds 3 points: 15 seconds 4 points: 18 seconds 5 points: 21 seconds

  • Improved Poisons

    Now also gives your poisons a chance to keep their charges.
    ClassicRank 5/5

    Increases the chance to apply poisons to your target by 10%.

    ForeverRank 5/5

    Increases the chance to apply Poisons to your target by 10%, and gives Poison applications a 50% chance to not consume a charge.

  • Improved Expose Armor

    Now makes Expose Armor cheaper and refunds combo points, instead of adding armor reduction.
    ClassicRank 2/2

    Increases the armor reduced by your Expose Armor ability by 50%.

    ForeverRank 2/2

    Reduces the Energy cost of your Expose Armor ability by 10, and refunds 2 Combo Points when cast with 5 Combo Points.

  • Murder

    Now adds 4% damage against humanoids and giants, but not beasts or dragonkin.
    ClassicRank 2/2

    Increases all damage caused against Humanoid, Giant, Beast and Dragonkin targets by 2%.

    ForeverRank 2/2

    Increases all damage dealt by 4% against Humanoid and Giant targets.

Other changes

  • Malice
    Now also raises your poisons' crit chance.
  • Lethality
    Now covers Mutilate, but adds 20% crit damage instead of 30%.
  • Cold Blood
    Moved up to row 4, and now works with Mutilate.
  • Improved Kidney Shot2 ranks, 3 in Classic
    Now only boosts your own damage on the stunned target.
  • Improved Gouge
    Moved here from Combat.
  • Vigor2 ranks, 1 in Classic
    Moved up to row 5, now in two ranks.

Combat talents

Classic
Forever
  • Hack and Slash

    Replaces the four weapon specializations with one talent that suits any weapon.
    ClassicRank 5/5

    Dagger Specialization

    Increases your chance to get a critical strike with Daggers by 5%.

    With Mace Specialization and Sword Specialization

    ForeverRank 5/5

    Gives your melee weapon attacks a benefit depending on the weapon. Axe/Sword: Your successful melee attacks have a 5% chance to trigger an extra attack on the target. Dagger/Fist: Increases your critical strike chance by 5%. Mace: Your attacks ignore 15% of your target's armor.

  • Puncturing Wounds

    Replaces Improved Backstab, also helps Mutilate, and can give Backstab an extra combo point.
    ClassicRank 3/3

    Improved Backstab

    Increases the critical strike chance of your Backstab ability by 30%.

    ForeverRank 3/3

    Increases the critical strike chance of your Backstab by 30% and your Mutilate by 15%, and gives Backstab a 45% chance to add an additional Combo Point.

  • Endurance

    Now cuts Sprint's and Evasion's cooldowns by 60%.
    ClassicRank 2/2

    Reduces the cooldown of your Sprint and Evasion abilities by 1.5 min.

    ForeverRank 2/2

    Reduces the cooldown of your Sprint and Evasion abilities by 60%.

  • Weapon Expertise

    Now makes your attacks harder to dodge and parry, instead of adding weapon skill.
    ClassicRank 2/2

    Increases your skill with Sword, Fist and Dagger weapons by 5.

    ForeverRank 2/2

    Reduces the chance for your attacks to be Dodged or Parried by 2%.

  • Dual Wield Specialization

    Now adds 25% off-hand damage instead of 50%.
    ClassicRank 5/5

    Increases the damage done by your offhand weapon by 50%.

    ForeverRank 5/5

    Increases the damage done by your off-hand weapon by 25%.

Other new talents

  • Flawless Execution
    Makes Eviscerate cost 10 less Energy.

Other changes

  • Improved Eviscerate
    Moved here from Assassination, and now adds 20% damage instead of 15%.
  • Aggression
    Now also boosts Backstab.
  • Precision3 ranks, 5 in Classic
    Now adds 3% hit instead of 5%.
  • Deflection3 ranks, 5 in Classic
    Now adds 6% parry instead of 5%.

Removed from the tree

  • Dagger Specialization
    Removed, and Hack and Slash gives daggers its crit bonus.
  • Fist Weapon Specialization
    Removed, and Hack and Slash gives fist weapons its crit bonus.
  • Mace Specialization
    Removed, and Hack and Slash makes maces ignore armor instead of stunning.

Subtlety talents

Classic
Forever
  • Thousand Cuts

    Each tick of your Rupture makes your next Hemorrhage or Backstab cheaper.
    ForeverRank 1/1

    When your Rupture ability deals periodic damage, the Energy cost of your next Hemorrhage or Backstab ability within 10 sec is reduced by 3, stacking up to 5 times.

  • Hemorrhage

    Now makes your own Rupture hit harder, and hits harder with a dagger.
    ClassicRank 1/1

    An instant strike that damages the opponent and causes the target to hemorrhage, increasing any Physical damage dealt to the target by up to 3. Lasts 30 charges or 15 sec. Awards 1 combo point.

    ForeverRank 1/1

    An instant strike that deals 100% weapon damage (145% if a Dagger is equipped) and causes the target to take 15% increased Rupture damage from the Rogue. Lasts 15 sec. Awards 1 Combo Point.

  • Premeditation

    Moved up to row 4, and its combo points now last 20 seconds.
    ClassicRank 1/1

    When used, adds 2 combo points to your target. You must add to or use those combo points within 10 sec or the combo points are lost.

    ForeverRank 1/1

    Adds 2 Combo Points to your target. You must add to or use those combo points within 20 sec or the combo points are lost.

  • Serrated Blades

    Now ignores 9% of the target's armor instead of a set amount.
    ClassicRank 3/3

    Causes your attacks to ignore 300 of your target's Armor and increases the damage dealt by your Rupture ability by 30%. The amount of Armor reduced increases with your level.

    ForeverRank 3/3

    Causes your attacks to ignore 9% of your target's Armor and increases the damage dealt by your Rupture ability by 30%.

  • Opportunity

    Now also covers Mutilate, but adds 10% instead of 20%.
    ClassicRank 5/5

    Increases the damage dealt when striking from behind with your Backstab, Garrote, or Ambush abilities by 20%.

    ForeverRank 2/2

    Increases the damage dealt by your Backstab, Garrote, Ambush, and Mutilate abilities by 10%.

Other new talents

  • Quietus
    Sinister Strike, Ghostly Strike and Hemorrhage deal 10% more to targets below 35% health.
  • Cutthroat
    Backstab can let you use your next Ambush without Stealth.
  • Dirty Tricks
    Replaces Improved Sap, and halves the Energy cost of Sap and Blind.
  • Improved Distract
    Makes Distract reach farther and work better against Stealth detection.

Other changes

  • Setup
    Moved up to row 2, and now always adds a combo point when you dodge or resist.
  • Initiative
    Now always adds the extra combo point.
  • Dirty Deeds
    Now also lets you Garrote from the front.
  • Ghostly Strike
    Now hits harder with a dagger.
  • Master of Deception3 ranks, 5 in Classic
    Now takes 3 points instead of 5.
  • Camouflage
    Moved up to row 1, and takes a little more off Stealth's cooldown.

Removed from the tree

  • Improved Sap
    Removed, since Sap no longer breaks Stealth for anyone.
  • Deadliness
    Removed, along with its 10% attack power.
  • Sleight of Hand
    Removed, along with its lower chance to be crit and stronger Feint.

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